Using EW4 vs Drupal

[SimpleWebs13]

I have been using EW since it came out. I use EW4 and have no problems, (other that the issues I mentioned on another forum). I have another web designer that is wanting me to look at using Drupal. It is very interesting and ZI like what it offers. Any thoughts?

[Cheryl D Wise]

Most of the folks I know prefer Joomla to Drupal but both are well known and popular content management systems. Depending on your client's needs Drupal can be a good option though in my opinion many sites that use one of the CMS applications would be better served with a simpler website. I guess I've just seen too many bad implemenations of those systems to use one without careful consideration of the client's needs.

Over on my Dreamweaver mail list we have a few folks who think that Joomla, Drupal or similar are the bees knees and should be used for every website so I'm a little soured on them. You should take that into account whenever I make comments on them. I do try to be fair but I tend to think they should be used far more sparingly than they are. On the other hand if you need at least 75% of the features they offer then by all means use one.

[SimpleWebs13]

My client wants a site where their members can register / login and use the services provided. Each one will have their own weight loss area to keep track of their daily intake of calories... different food groups for each meal of the day. I have designed it so at 12:01 am the entire form resets and the info for the previous day is sent to a database to be viewed at a later date. I designed the layout where they can drag and drop the food icons but there is only so much programing that I know. I can setup the registration and login parts and the payment area but the functionality of the form, I am just not very good at.

The person I know that is pushing Drupal is an expert at it and will help me with the parts that I can't finish, for a small price. I think this is an area where Drupal / Joomla will come in handy. I still like using EW4 & ED4. I am trying to improve my php skills. There isn't a lot of coding in Drupal that I see. VERY different!

Do you use more than just 1 program to create web projects?

[Cheryl D Wise]

Sounds like the site might be a candidate for a CMS.

Yes, I do use multiple applications for web design/development. No one program can or even should do everything I do because to do it all means that much if not all of what it does would be subpar.

Somethings I only use for specific tasks like TopStyle as a quick way to format & organize styles in the way I prefer after I'm done or at least mostly done with a design. I tend to prefer Dreamweaver for sites  that are heavy on php code and use a lot of php includes. Expression Web for ASP.NET sites. On occasion I'll even open Visual Studio though it isn't my favorite thing to use because it is very programmer oriented for back-end development which the less I have to do the better I like it.

I also use Fireworks, Photoshop, Lightroom, Camtasia, Swish (for as little as I use Flash it suits me better than Adobe Flash), Expression Encoder and half a dozen other programs not to mention tools like EditCSS in Firefox, IE Developer Toolbar or Firebug.

[SimpleWebs13]

It is a CMS site. That's why I am looking at Drupal and if the person I know will finish the parts I can't, then that seems like a win-win for me.

I was going to contract out all the programming for the functionality of the form itself but, the price I got was more than I wanted to pay. I still want complete control over the project and the designs.

I use EW4 & ED4 for most of the work I do and that is why I am interested in learning other development tools. I thought about using photoshop more and even investing in Illustrator or InDesign to get better at the design part. Any thoughts?

[Cheryl D Wise]

InDesign is for print. If you aren't doing print work forget about it since its learning curve is steep. For web Fireworks is my graphics editor of choice. It has a very good combination of vector & bitmap tools, plus it was created specifically for web graphics. That means it has excellent image optimization tools. It has a lot of features for web prototyping and can even export site designs with css and slicing. It isn't as good as doing it yourself when you know CSS well but its better than any other tool out there. Artseer which is a Photoshop to web tool is an example of how not to do it for example. One thing you can do with Fireworks is include interactivity in your mock-ups/prototying that you export to a PDF that lets the client run through the menus, etc. w/o giving them access to the code for approvals. All they get is a locked PDF with no source code they can use in Acrobat reader. That alone makes it a good tool for many folks.

For logos Illustrator is best since it has more tools and keeps everything in vector so it scales beautifully and you can output to just about any format you could ever want to use.

Photoshop is more about print and photography. I don't use it for web design through many people do, especially those with a graphic design or fine art background.

Once upon a time I used to be a serious photographer back when I owned an antique store. I'd do all the ad photography myself and I still have my black & white darkroom packed i a box in my closet. Last year I finally made the move to a serious digital SLR and am trying to do more with photography. That's why the next event I'll be attending is Photoshop World in Orlando at the end of this month. I know the person presenting Dreamweaver so I'll probably go to her session but I'm trying to force myself out of my comfort zone by attending more of the photography track.

[SimpleWebs13]

I use photoshop occasionally for Photos and for one of my clients when they send me images created in photoshop and I need to extract different layers. I used fireworks a few years ago but never upgraded when vista came out.

I am looking to purchase both Illustrator and Fireworks again. I just don't think Exp Design 4 offers me all the tools I need to do the web designs.

[Cheryl D Wise]

You are right that Expression Design doesn't offer you all you need. If you look around you may still be able to find a download for Expression 3. MS made it available free when they purchased the application and it was quite different from what MS turned it into. It was a much better all around graphics program similar to Fireworks.

I'd suggest going and downloading the trial versions of Illustrator & Fireworks before you buy them, perhaps taking the Lynda.com classes on how to use them as well. There are also a lot of stuff on Adobe TV about them. I like Jim Babbage's books and tutorials on Fireworks.

[SimpleWebs13]

I still have all the downloads for Exp Web & Design 1, 2, 3, & 4. Really I have been wanting to go a different direction equal to the industry standards. Most people use the adobe products so, I might as well change now.

I downloaded the trials of both Fireworks & Illustrator CS5 this morning. I will learn them as quick as I can and also check out Linda.com, AdobeTV and any other outlet there is to learn.

[Cheryl D Wise]

Expression Web does write to HTML/CSS specifications. I use both and have over the years been both a Microsoft MVP and an Adobe Community Expert. I'm concerned with the final product not how you get there though if you used VI to create web pages I'd think you were a fool.

Dreamweaver used to own the professional web market but Expression Web has eaten into that market. You'd be surprised at the number of folks who used to be Dreamweaver only who are now using both products. I'm the current owner of the Adobe-Dreamweaver (used to be Macromedia-Dreamweaver) mail list over on Yahoo (its had 4 previous owners) with over 5700 members so I see a lot of the pros & cons of using it.